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[berserkx33]

Heya, I have a question, if I would post alternate class tracks for base game classes, how would be the best way to present them as that?

I'm mostly thinking on the trouble that people are having building the requirements for homebrew classes that start at LVL 4 or 5. So to make it a more clear track would be a good way to make them easier to throw into a build.

I was thinking of referencing the original class track and the level where it diverges, but since it would require reading the core books, would it require too much cross referencing?

[GuardianTempest]

Aug 20, 2022 22:22:24 GMT -6 berserkx33 said:

Heya, I have a question, if I would post alternate class tracks for base game classes, how would be the best way to present them as that?

I'm mostly thinking on the trouble that people are having building the requirements for homebrew classes that start at LVL 4 or 5. So to make it a more clear track would be a good way to make them easier to throw into a build.

I was thinking of referencing the original class track and the level where it diverges, but since it would require reading the core books, would it require too much cross referencing?

What do you mean? What are you trying to do? Barbarian but it gets a different set of feats? The level 1 base classes but they're full tracks?

My first impulse is that I advise against the idea of revised core classes. The only such thing in the entire forum is the Revised Guardsman, and all that has is access to Gun Kata instead of Sword Schools. It's not a precedent. And the Level 1-only classes serve as a jumping point to give something. Peasant in particular let you invest in any characteristic, something no other class does.

And by classes that start at Level 4/5, did you mean specialist/prestige class tracks? Those things are that way for a reason. Master of Nine and Master Gunslinger in particular are deliberately designed to require significant investment before getting to them. Access to other specialist classes come as a reward for multiclassing, or at least dipping into a new class instead of locking it all in one. In exchange, you get some wonderful bonuses like auto-passing Wealth tests (Celebrity), burninating harder (Cinerator), storing spells and resource points as items (Jewel Mage), etc. I think the idea of making a class track solely to reach something faster reeks too much of "homebrewing to munchkin in an ongoing game". Besides, the Arcane-Knight, Caveman and Wanderer do a good job of being multiclass fodder

[berserkx33]

Oh, no revisions.

Just like,literal alternate tracks, kind of like 5e Subclasses

It would be stuff like picking the Assassin Class Track and add a "Strider" alternate track at LVL 3 that is more mobility focused for example, but it would build up over the already existing feats of the original.

[GuardianTempest]

Aug 21, 2022 0:04:41 GMT -6 berserkx33 said:

Oh, no revisions.

Just like,literal alternate tracks, kind of like 5e Subclasses

It would be stuff like picking the Assassin Class Track and add a "Strider" alternate track at LVL 3 that is more mobility focused for example, but it would build up over the already existing feats of the original.

Ooooh. That. Yeah I think the Specialist Class Levels could work. See if any of the classes there provide inspiration — like my Black Ops subclass, which is literally Level 2 and Level 4 of Warfighter but with more stealth-based feats and skill requirements.

Ah, but keep in mind that a lot of homebrew classes also have Book 1/2 feats so it's going to be inevitable that your alternate track could be entered from outside the intended class (Adventurer and Ninja for example has Improved Feint and Sneak Attack). And don't even bother adding "has completed two levels of Assassin" to the prerequisites.

Here are some class-building tips I gave to Masmanus when he needed assistance with class-making.

SPOILER: Click to show

Sept 19, 2021 1:05:40 GMT -6 GuardianTempest said:

- Figure out what niche you want your class to have
- Check if another class (or combination of two classes) could already fulfill the niche you're planning to provide
- Try not to step on the toes of another class too much
- Keep in mind which level a Core feat first appears in (Guardian shows up at 2, Swift Attack at 3, Fearless at 4, Fan the Hammer at 5)
- You don't always have to make it a 5-level class track, some classes only have 1-3 levels and/or require specific exaltations/races
- Full 5-level classes often have minor completion bonuses
- Base classes are a starting point, don't make them too powerful
- Recommended mandatory feats per level: 4-6
- Recommended total amount of feats per level: 6-8 (some of them have to be optional)
- Optional feats provide bonuses that would enhance/complement the class's playstyle or provide an alternate option.
- Recommended ratio of maximum Sword Schools and Gun Katas: 1:3, 2:2, 3:1
- Don't always take another homebrew as precedent, just because another class did something "rule-breaking" doesn't mean yours should as well
..........Examples: Warden gets Guardian at Level 1, Novice has 3 mandatory feats per level, Harbingers diverge into difference classes
- Some classes have special intended gimmicks/deliberate playstyles, try not to take it away from them
- Don't make new homebrew feats when an existing one could do, better if it's a core feat. Also, some actions can be abstracted with a skill test.
- Don't go overboard with complexity and bookkeeping, try to make new feats as complex/concise as necessary (hypocritical of me, I know)
- It's okay if your class has weaknesses in some areas, it can be compensated with multiclassing.
- On that note, don't make it easy for other class tracks to barge into yours if an important feat in an earlier level would be skipped.
- Some homebrew is left behind in Zetaboards Tapatalk for a reason, don't bring it back.
- Don't be afraid to ask questions, seek community feedback, and gather suggestions. Me, Traskus and Scrap had to start from somewhere. My Warfighter was a total mess when it first came out.

As for in-field balance testing, well, that's why we run games (if ever). But if you have no other option then you could run solo games using a GM Emulator.

By the way, is Traceur what you might have in mind?

[berserkx33]

Oh yeah, that is very in line. Thanks a lot.

[a311243549]

Hi, I'm new to DtD. The setting appeals to me, but most of the corebook content seems to cater to low-mid levels. I'm running an extremely high-level Zoo Game (i.e. the PCs are on par with Antediluvians, if those were in CofD) and was hoping that DtD had some epic-level content that would be able to match that. Is there anywhere I could look to find such a thing?

[Amanojyaku]

Try here.

[GuardianTempest]

Dec 8, 2022 1:59:55 GMT -6 a311243549 said:

Hi, I'm new to DtD. The setting appeals to me, but most of the corebook content seems to cater to low-mid levels. I'm running an extremely high-level Zoo Game (i.e. the PCs are on par with Antediluvians, if those were in CofD) and was hoping that DtD had some epic-level content that would be able to match that. Is there anywhere I could look to find such a thing?

Hello! Thank you for your interest. I'm the only one active in this time zone.

Keep in mind the Exalts are on a whole different level, so of course the non-Modrons would seem like small potatoes in comparison. Even a new character is already a big deal at least because of their static powers. A single "wound" (lost hit point) is exactly that, a wound, and four wounds are enough to make an average human to critical levels. Of course, it doesn't help that the dramatis personae in the core rulebook seems to be outdated in HP calculation. Here's a thread that displays vanilla stat blocks with better calculation. Of course, enemy stat blocks having such low HP in comparison to the PCs does sell the fact that the player characters are more powerful than usual.

In general, the Bestiary & Gazetter section of the forums contain new Crystal Spheres, extra fluff, and (most importantly) new stat blocks to throw at your players. The Simple Expanded Bestiary contains new stuff that's in line with the rulebook material (if the HP isn't high enough, just double it to match player HP). If you're okay with going to the deep end of homebrew, there's the Advanced Expanded Bestiary, which contains a lot of stuff from Darkbeasts, to Atropals, to my adaptations of Elizabeth and Karna from Fate. Fate NPC splatbook Soon™️ There's also a thread for the Eldrazi, expanded Tau, more Mind Flayers, the Zerg, and Marr's miscellaneous bunch of critters (the Safari Park).

EDIT: Whoops, this is what I get for doing the dishes before hitting "Create Post"

[Traskus]

How epic-level are we talking? The tarrasque, the apocalypse stone, cataclysmic dragons, or the neutronium golem?

[justinsane]

Just double-checking, can you use Two-Weapon Fighting and Swift Attack simultaneously, for 3 attacks (using up 2 reactions) in one round?

[Lestat]

Exactly, two weapon fighting layers on an extra attack to whatever else works with multiple attacks, it can even add a melee attack to double tap, or a ranged attack to swift/lightning attack.

[asher]

There is something that I haven’t understood for while now and it has to do with touch and ranged touch spells and their use of brawl and ballistics respectively. I understand the logic with touch your punching someone with the spell and ranged touch your shooting the spell. But what I don’t get is why nearly all solely magic focused classes don’t offer brawl and ballistics as skills when there is a perfectly good arcane skill right there. Even the default magic-user class has neither. The game highly insensitives multi-classing already but at the same time I feel like a class should be functional on its own and having these two phantom skills on all magic classes seem weird. Is there something I’m missing?

[Amanojyaku]

Because Dexterity is used in one of them. When there's a characteristic involved in a skill test (i.e. Ballistics + DEX), you keep the characteristic.

Main attack magic school also includes Magic Missile (fuck you, get hit possibly many times) and is mostly spells with Blast to varying degrees, so it really doesn't give a shit about the Ballistics roll anyway (because Blast is fuck you, get hit).

[asher]

Right but not every spell has blast or is a guaranteed hit, are completely magic focused characters just SOL with anything else. not every spell caster wants to be megumin.

[Amanojyaku]

Without looking at homebrew, the only Attack spell in Evocation 1 that requires a roll is Energy Burst, which has Blast (2) and thus doesn't care about the attack roll. Evocation 2 has Defenestration, which only cares that there's a wall near your actual target. Evocation 3 has Energyball (Blast, doesn't care about attack roll) and Energy Aura (passive spike damage, no attack roll). Evocation 4 gives Energy Wall (environmental hazard, no attack roll) and Lightning Ring (spike aura, no attack roll). Both spells at Evocation 5 are Blast (10) and thus couldn't possibly give less of a damn about attack rolls. You actually have to be deliberately shooting yourself in the foot (and probably missing, given the complaint at hand) to not be finding ways around a lack of Ballistics skill.

Failing that... just take Ballistics dots. Off-class doesn't mean you can't buy them, just means they're more expensive, and also not related to the class's flavor. It's not unheard of to toss chargen dots into off-class skills either, just to make it easier to multiclass later. Magic User into Mercenary makes for a ghetto task mage.