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Post by masmanus on Sept 27, 2021 10:17:50 GMT -6
 Students of the Shell Smasher school are unmistakable in battle, fighting as much above the battlefield as within it. Graceful leaping attacks are a hallmark of this school, as are using the faces of your enemies as a springboard to make another attack or leap out of the fray. Acrobatics, predictably, is the Key Skill for the Shell Smasher school, and adepts of the school train with Brawling weapons. The Quadav first developed the Shell Smasher school, in contradiction to their reputation for ponderous movement. The techniques of the style, and the name itself, are inspired by a pervasive boogeyman figure of Quadav folklore, who is said to ambush bad children from the sky and leave their shells smashed to bits. Shell Smasher is an alternative to Setting Sun Level 1: Initiate
-Weapon (Brawling): Use Brawling attacks with your Martial Maneuvers. -Action (Half-Move - Jump): Use Half Move actions to Jump as part of a martial maneuver. Any attack-related advantages you apply to the special attack are instead applied to the normal attack made taking the half-move action to Jump. That attack may not be a Special Attack. Level 2: Apprentice
(-1)Overshoot: If this attack misses, you are propelled 3 meters away from the target of your attack in a random direction, +2 additional meters for every check on the attack test. (2)Goomba Stomp: This attack always his the head. Level 3: Journeyman
(-1)Skill (Acrobatics): As part of this attack, make an Acrobatics check against the static defense of the target. If it fails, the attack fails. (2)Springboard Jump: If this attack hits, you may immediately Jump as a Half-Move action – this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. This Half-move is part of this special attack, and may not be modified by other special attacks. Level 4: Master
-Mastery (Kaizo Evasion): Gain +5 static defense until your next turn if you’ve taken a Full or Half-Move action to Jump. (4)Sliding Shell Attack: A target damaged by this attack (of your size or smaller) is knocked back a number of meters equal to twice the wounds taken (or until they hit a solid object or another combatant), and falls prone. If this would cause them to impact another target, roll damage against that second target as well. Level 5: Grandmaster
(4)Cascade of Boot-To-Face: If this attack hits, you may immediately Jump as a Half-Move action – this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. This Half-move is part of this special attack, and may not be modified by other special attacks. You may repeat this attack if you past the Jump test and adjacent to another potential target that you have not already attacked during this special attack. This can be chained indefinitely, though at a stacking +5 TN for each jump test after the 1st. |
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Post by masmanus on Sept 27, 2021 10:19:59 GMT -6
Welp... here's my first attempt at a sword school. Trying to capture that maniacal thrill of chain-jumping off an endless string of enemies in a platformer.
I'm 100% certain this will need some adjusting - feedback is welcome.
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Post by Amanojyaku on Sept 27, 2021 11:49:53 GMT -6
-Action (Jump): Use Jump actions in martial maneuvers. Jumping is not an action. This is a school restriction to a Movement action. Copypaste error? Only a spelling error here. Jumping is not an action. Suggested: "Jump following the attack," may or may not be restricted by remaining movement. Jumping is not an action. "...if you've jumped during your current or previous turn." Jumping is not an action. See note for Springboard Jump.Martial schools reference the Actions in Combat table (Book 1, p.242). Jumping or swimming are types of movement, not actions in and of themselves. That and a typo are the only issues I'm taking here. |
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Post by masmanus on Sept 27, 2021 12:21:31 GMT -6
Many thanks for the feedback - I've adjusted the wording to properly refer to Jump as a type of movement (i.e. "if this attack hits, you may immediately Jump as a Half-Move action"). I think these changes fairly well clear up any ambiguity.
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Post by GuardianTempest on Sept 27, 2021 18:51:55 GMT -6
I suggest Springboard Jump's free Half Move to not be a special attack, unless it's intended?
Kaizo Evasion needs a duration timer in case someone tries to be clever and use it to stack bonuses for the entire battle. My suggested rewrite is "Gain +5 static defense until your next turn if you’ve taken a Full or Half-Move action to Jump." Unless it was your intention to allow that?
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Post by masmanus on Sept 27, 2021 23:10:19 GMT -6
I suggest Springboard Jump's free Half Move to not be a special attack, unless it's intended? Don't the rules already preclude this, since you can't stack special attacks? Come to think of it, if a special attack tells you to take another action, is it also considered part of that special attack? I'd assumed yes, but I honestly can't recall if that's been addressed anywhere. Kaizo Evasion needs a duration timer in case someone tries to be clever and use it to stack bonuses for the entire battle. My suggested rewrite is "Gain +5 static defense until your next turn if you’ve taken a Full or Half-Move action to Jump." Unless it was your intention to allow that? Stacking +5s wasn't intended - I've substituted the original rules text of Kaizo Evasion with your suggested re-write. |
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Post by Amanojyaku on Sept 27, 2021 23:15:30 GMT -6
I suggest Springboard Jump's free Half Move to not be a special attack, unless it's intended? Don't the rules already preclude this, since you can't stack special attacks? Come to think of it, if a special attack tells you to take another action, is it also considered part of that special attack? I'd assumed yes, but I honestly can't recall if that's been addressed anywhere. Nope, that was me. |
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Post by masmanus on Sept 28, 2021 9:42:53 GMT -6
The free half-move granted by Springboard Jump/Cascade of Boot-To-Face now explicitly can't be use for other special attacks.
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Post by username on Sept 29, 2021 17:39:56 GMT -6
Finally, the perfect Sword School for Quadav hate crimes. This may complicate things since it seems to be satisfactory but I'm not certain half-move jump is the proper action typing for it. Jumping is a type of movement but the rules for it are on page 264: The Move action has its own rules and limits for how far you can travel with it (your Speed) but jumping is instead based on your strength and your roll. If you would jump further than your speed, would you just stop mid-air until your next turn then. Thri-kreen especially are going into run into issues with that due to their absurd jumping distance. As such I'd say that rule-wise Jumping movement probably falls under unpleasantly nebulous "Use a Skill" Action-in-Combat from page 249:
Of course that is a lot less clean in some ways, because USE A SKILL is a variable action that doesn't have a set time since it varies based on the skill and situation. The tags on it are likewise rather broad. Also it can lead to the Morrowind problem where you just jump everywhere because it's faster than walking. The current set up is probably fine, but it's something to keep in mind as a concern when you get into the nitty gritty rulings and might ease the wording of things like Springboard Jump's half-move jump.
One thing regarding jumping as opposed to Move is that you don't have complete freedom on your distance, since it up to your roll meaning you could end up unfortunately overshooting your target. Luck of the dice, Exalt problems but not an issue with the school itself. There are obvious workarounds such as Bloodwind for the crazy 50m range. Of course you could argue that doesn't count as Melee range despite being able to attack at that distance... but if it isn't melee then it runs into issues where it may not be parried which is a whole nothing can of worms. Book 2: No sense of right or wrong.
Cascade of Boot to the Face is perhaps a bit overpowered. Is it your Melee range or theirs? Does the "another potential target" need to be different every time or can you jump back and forth between two? The TN of a standing jump is 15 and it only increases by 5 each. So 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 etc. A 10k5 roll averages about 45, before bonuses like Stunting, Bionic Locomotion, Resource points etc for even more. That means you'd be looking at easily 7+ Special Attacks (since you're repeating the Attack itself, so those other 6 points are yours to spend on something nasty) each time you use it making it one of the strongest things in the entire game. You need to land in melee range, but with Bloodwind's 50m range for Brawling (and it's a brawling sword school!) can alleviate. We're looking at a lot of uncertainty here though. Perhaps just saying Adjacent would work better and make it harder to use consistently. Making it so each attack needs to one that you hadn't hit already can limit the destruction a bit as well, while still being potentially very powerful, although even then you could try to argue that the target doesn't need to be an NPC so you could attack the ground or even yourself to keep the cascade going.
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Post by username on Sept 29, 2021 17:58:01 GMT -6
Oh another few questions. How do you intend for it to interact if Springboard Jump and Cascade of Boot to the Face are put on the same special attack? They're not technically mutually exclusive.
In my reading Springboard Jump just gets wasted in that case since both Advantages say "may immediately" so if you jump for one you can't jump for the other. I figure that's a good thing but wanted to confirm whether you preferred it to let you roll your jump twice or double-jump or some such.
I also presume that if Sliding Shell Attack causes the target to collide with more than one target that only the 1st collision (the 2nd target as it states) takes the extra damage, right?
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Post by masmanus on Sept 29, 2021 20:45:51 GMT -6
This may complicate things since it seems to be satisfactory but I'm not certain half-move jump is the proper action typing for it. Jumping is a type of movement but the rules for it are on page 264: The Move action has its own rules and limits for how far you can travel with it (your Speed) but jumping is instead based on your strength and your roll. If you would jump further than your speed, would you just stop mid-air until your next turn then. Thri-kreen especially are going into run into issues with that due to their absurd jumping distance. As such I'd say that rule-wise Jumping movement probably falls under unpleasantly nebulous "Use a Skill" Action-in-Combat from page 249:
Of course that is a lot less clean in some ways, because USE A SKILL is a variable action that doesn't have a set time since it varies based on the skill and situation. The tags on it are likewise rather broad.
RAW, a half-move certainly can't be used for jumping. Then again, RAW doesn't specify how to jump in combat specifically (Use a Skill comes closest)... which is certainly something that characters are narratively capable of. That issue is what got me thinking about what became this sword school, and is why I codified this house rule. My intention for "combat jumps" as a variant half-move, which operate jump using the normal jump rules (and so ignores Speed in favor of the results of the jump test). I think the current wording conveys that, but correct me if I'm wrong Also it can lead to the Morrowind problem where you just jump everywhere because it's faster than walking. As far as this sword school goes I don't think that's much of an issue, since you'd need a daisy-chain of enemies to attack-jump along for movement. As far the "jumping as a half move" concept in general... yeah, you're right. But then again, maybe a high-Strength high-Athletics character should be able to jump faster than they walk? Works for the Hulk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. One thing regarding jumping as opposed to Move is that you don't have complete freedom on your distance, since it up to your roll meaning you could end up unfortunately overshooting your target. Luck of the dice, Exalt problems but not an issue with the school itself. There are obvious workarounds such as Bloodwind for the crazy 50m range. Of course you could argue that doesn't count as Melee range despite being able to attack at that distance... but if it isn't melee then it runs into issues where it may not be parried which is a whole nothing can of worms. Book 2: No sense of right or wrong. Yup, that's an intended interaction. Extra movement at the expense of control, having to strategize around an suboptimal Jump test, etc. Just seemed like a fun mechanic IMHO Cascade of Boot to the Face is perhaps a bit overpowered. Is it your Melee range or theirs? Does the "another potential target" need to be different every time or can you jump back and forth between two? The TN of a standing jump is 15 and it only increases by 5 each. So 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 etc. A 10k5 roll averages about 45, before bonuses like Stunting, Bionic Locomotion, Resource points etc for even more. That means you'd be looking at easily 7+ Special Attacks (since you're repeating the Attack itself, so those other 6 points are yours to spend on something nasty) each time you use it making it one of the strongest things in the entire game. You need to land in melee range, but with Bloodwind's 50m range for Brawling (and it's a brawling sword school!) can alleviate. We're looking at a lot of uncertainty here though. Perhaps just saying Adjacent would work better and make it harder to use consistently. Making it so each attack needs to one that you hadn't hit already can limit the destruction a bit as well, while still being potentially very powerful, although even then you could try to argue that the target doesn't need to be an NPC so you could attack the ground or even yourself to keep the cascade going. That's a good point, and I like both of your suggested modifications to bring the power level down a bit - I'll add those as soon as I'm done posting this. Oh another few questions. How do you intend for it to interact if Springboard Jump and Cascade of Boot to the Face are put on the same special attack? They're not technically mutually exclusive. In my reading Springboard Jump just gets wasted in that case since both Advantages say "may immediately" so if you jump for one you can't jump for the other. I figure that's a good thing but wanted to confirm whether you preferred it to let you roll your jump twice or double-jump or some such. Cascade of Boot-To-Face is meant to be a strictly better version of Springboard Jump (minus the increased cost), and the two are not intended to stack. As you picked up, the wording is designed to give no benefit to stacking both modifies. I also presume that if Sliding Shell Attack causes the target to collide with more than one target that only the 1st collision (the 2nd target as it states) takes the extra damage, right? My intention was for Sliding Shell Attack to damage only one extra target as you surmised. Come to think of it though, it would be a bit simpler if the target just stopped moving after striking another target... will edit accordingly. |
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